Episode Transcript
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Ki Sung : Welcome to the MindShift Podcast the place we discover the way forward for studying and the way we elevate our children. I’m Ki Sung. This month marks 50 years because the fall of Saigon, the top of the Vietnam Warfare. And whereas the Vietnamese-American neighborhood right here has flourished and grown, their illustration in kids’s books is catching up with the inhabitants. In in the present day’s episode, we’ll hear from kids’s ebook illustrator Minnie Phan, who illustrated the ebook, Simone. The story of Simone is about in California and brings to life among the selections a younger woman is compelled to make when evacuating her residence due to a wildfire. Minnie Phan illustrated the ebook, however the textual content of the story was written by Pulitzer Prize-winning creator Viet Thanh Nguyen.
Ki Sung: Minnie Phan, welcome to Thoughts Shift. Inform us about your ebook, Simone, and what impressed you to inform this story.
Minnie Phan: Hello, it’s so nice to be right here. I’m thrilled. It’s an honor. And Simone truly got here from 2020 throughout a really intense time for I believe everybody throughout the globe the place particularly particularly within the Bay Space the place we had not simply the pandemic however the wildfires as nicely. In order I’m processing and and going by the motions I used to be leaning into myself as an grownup I used to be main into what I’ve at all times which was drawing and portray and writing. And I believed, what are children doing? And I had a sense children have been doing the very same factor. They have been drawing and writing and recording, reflecting. And so I wrote a brief ebook about wildfires and this expertise of this little woman who’s making an attempt to grasp the world by her sketchbook. I pitched it to my agent and he or she mentioned, I really like the artwork, however the story is someplace, it’s not fairly there but. Do you wanna work with a author? in, you understand, I suppose I’ve bought guts as a result of I abruptly mentioned, I do know a author and I recommended, I recommended Viet Thanh Nguyen who I met 10 years in the past and he’s considered one of my literary heroes and I used to be there on the launch of The Sympathizer earlier than it received the Pulitzer and I adopted his profession for nearly a decade over and I simply at all times knew that in the future I needed to work with him. So when this chance got here up, I mentioned, attempt to ask Viet. And I bear in mind earlier than any editors or publishers or any contracts, something occurred, Viet bought the e-mail from his agent about my mission and Viet mentioned, name me. So I name him, I pitch him this wordless storybook, this phrase much less storyboard. And, I swear in that second, I believed, I bombed, I blew it, he’s by no means gonna work with me. After which 20 minutes later, I bought an electronic mail and he mentioned, Okay, let’s go.
Ki Sung: Congrats on touchdown such an enormous fish.
Minnie Phan: My household’s from a fishing village, so I’ve bought it in my bones.
Ki Sung: Superior.
Minnie Phan: So, I usually pitch the ebook as a younger woman dealing with intergenerational… experiences with local weather change. However Viet usually says, I believe it’s extra a couple of younger woman and the facility of artwork and the way artwork is used to attach with herself and different folks. As a result of the ebook is extra than simply about this terrifying hearth that threatens her residence. It’s about how she’s in a position to join with different people who find themselves going by related experiences by saying, hey, draw with me, inform me your story. Let’s draw your own home. What does it appear like? Do you wish to go residence? What does your private home appear like?
Ki Sung: I do love that distinction possibly between the children’ expertise versus the adults as a result of there may be one web page the place adults are utilizing massive phrases that children might have seen. However that is actually about processing occasions that occur in children’ lives that could be out of their management.
Minnie Phan: Completely, for certain. I imply, I’m eager about, can I’m going into my favourite kids’s ebook?
Ki Sung: Completely.
Minnie Phan: Okay. I’m take into consideration once I was a child, I truly didn’t learn very a lot. My dad and mom are like many Vietnamese immigrants, refugees from Vietnam, particularly central Vietnam. And I bear in mind I didn’t actually have very many avenues for for communication, connection, understanding, however there was one ebook that I bear in mind so clearly. I’m gonna learn the title. Alexander and the Horrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Dangerous Day. And I bear in mind, so clearly, selecting up this ebook and saying, that is how I really feel on a extremely unhealthy day. That is how really feel. And it didn’t matter, actually, what occurred that day, nevertheless it was that I might join and establish what was happening. And that was due to an image ebook. , my dad and mom and I… We didn’t have a really robust shared language. I moved quite a bit as a child within the Bay Space. I used to be born in Stockton, however went to 5 elementary faculties everywhere in the Bay Space. So I didn’t have lots of steady connections, however I at all times had books, drawing, writing, and sketchbooks.
Ki Sung: To be sincere, that is inspiring to me as a result of I believe there are lots of educators who do educate college students who’ve struggles speaking with their dad and mom, who possibly are the translator for his or her household, translating essential paperwork, who transfer from place to put, don’t ever actually really feel settled. So that is actually nice to listen to your reflection in your private expertise and assist different children entry that as nicely by this ebook.
Minnie Phan: Completely. Illustration is important to my work, after all, however actually, I believe the core of why I do what I do is to attach with my internal baby, which I believe all of us have inside. And I believe, the nearer you’re to your internal baby the higher you’ll be able to make media and artwork for youngsters, since you actually perceive the expertise. Being a child is each joyful and delightful and thrilling and enjoyable, of trigger, however I believe adults underplay, underappreciate the deep. emotions that kids have, the deep potential that kids are able to. Not many individuals undergo rising up in a refugee immigrant household. It’s a lonely expertise, and it’s scary. However I did it, and so many hundreds of thousands of different have. And I believe that’s additionally why we’d like artwork within the Vietnamese diaspora, as a result of it captures this expertise that’s actually distinctive and particular. And I might go into my journey.
Ki Sung : Yeah, let’s hear it. I do know you simply bought again from an enormous journey to Japan and Korea, is that proper? And some years in the past you had additionally gone to Vietnam. Are you able to discuss your travels?
Minnie Phan: Okay, yeah, that is massive, we’re gonna get into it. So, I discussed I’ve moved quite a bit as a child, 5 elementary faculties. I truly ended up going to highschool in Pleasanton and I struggled quite a bit in highschool. I virtually didn’t graduate, I had a horrible GPA and I used to be simply within the incorrect crowd. However my artwork instructor actually noticed one thing in me and he believed in me. Shout out to Mr. Doyle at Newbie Valley Excessive, He’s phenomenal. modified my life. He actually confirmed me what artwork might do and I discovered ardour and that means and path and so I utilized to artwork college my senior 12 months and I bought a full-ride scholarship to California School of the Arts. And I bear in mind it broke my dad and mom coronary heart. They have been so upset they couldn’t consider it even when it was a full- trip scholarship to a non-public artwork college. They felt that I used to be selecting starvation in a manner the place They didn’t select starvation. It was compelled upon them. My dad and mom grew up in central Vietnam in a small village in a province referred to as Quang Thi, which I’m so sorry to the Vietnamese folks listening. I do know my Vietnamese will not be good, however that’s okay. However they’re from a small fishing village. And my mom needed to drop out of college when she was in third grade. My father, when he was in fifth grade, as a result of they have been surviving a famine, warfare. They’ve misplaced family members. Starvation was not an choice. It was a actuality. And so once I selected artwork college, all they may see was she’s selecting a tough life. However they didn’t perceive at that second that what I used to be selecting was to inform our tales, was to heal so lots of the intergenerational wounds or not less than try and heal by a refrain of artists’ voices, the injuries that the Vietnamese diaspora throughout the globe has. And it has been a wonderful journey. I believe my life wouldn’t be what it’s if I didn’t go to artwork college. Once I was a junior at CCA, I received a scholarship that was no strings hooked up cash. I might do something, pay tuition, get artwork provides. And I made a decision to go to Vietnam for the primary time on my own. Three weeks, I had no concept what I used to be doing. I’d by no means been on a aircraft alone earlier than and I’d ever been to a rural place, a creating nation, I’ve by no means met so many relations. However I needed to, I’ve to as a result of my dad and mom actually simply needed to raise us up economically in a secure place the place we didn’t have to fret about. illness, warfare, et cetera. However I needed to know, who am I? Who’re we? How will we get right here? Why are we right here? And there’s so many issues that we didn’t study at school, in highschool, et cetera. So I needed to actually, I believe I needed to be courageous and do onerous issues. And that have modified my life. I used to be 21 and I met so many form family members. Individuals have been so candy and I noticed wealth inequality and poverty at a scale I’d by no means skilled earlier than. However I additionally noticed love and pleasure and affection in a manner that solely a village, a real village might present. And in addition, The expertise humanized my dad and mom as a result of my dad and mom have been so upset about my option to go to artwork college. However once I went to Vietnam, I used to be staying on the residence of my dad and mom, my mom’s childhood residence, and I abruptly might see, I might abruptly see her little child ft operating by the sand. And I bear in mind this elder came over the home and he or she had misplaced her sight and he or she truly had raised my mom when my grandmother had died. And this girl, she lifts her fingers and he or she touches my face and he or she goes, I do know who that is. That is Tay’s daughter. I do know her. And so then I abruptly had this chance to ask, what was my mom like when she was a lady? What was she like when was little? There have been abruptly so many avenues and I wanted that therapeutic. And I believe I couldn’t make it by or be there at that place if I weren’t an artist, seeing the world by an artist’s lens. I used to be there to bear witness to the lives of the folks round me and in addition my very own life. It actually modified me going again to Vietnam. I got here again and I believe I held much more forgiveness and understanding and love for my dad and mom and my household finest they may do.
Ki Sung: I do know teenage years are onerous for everyone, however if you’re ready to have a look at the longer arc of a relationship, these moments of restoration, proper, of therapeutic might be so helpful in the long term. So I’m glad you had that have. And the artwork that you just make can be how folks can recall and course of their experiences. So that you’re imprinting your message on to. children and adults as nicely once they undergo the hardship and take into consideration tips on how to recuperate from that.
Minnie Phan: Hmm. Yeah, it’s fascinating. Really, I believe the going so eager about the image ebook area as particularly about range and illustration. I Assume essentially the most profitable books are those that seize The kid expertise or the expertise of a person in that second I’ve observed a couple of instructions within the picturebook Neighborhood that’s about range or numerous image books one is the author therapeutic a trauma, the actually particular issues that they need they’d seen once they have been a child. And so they need this ebook to exist as a result of it’s necessary. And it’s like, if this ebook exists now, my youthful baby self can have it. And I believe there are additionally different books the place it’s particularly in regards to the expertise of the child. I additionally illustrated a ebook referred to as The Yellow Aoi with Han Bui. And the Aoi, that’s… Al-Yai. Al-yai. OK. And that ebook was about one other metaphor for intergenerational connection a couple of younger woman who finds her mom’s al-yaj and dances in it after which tears it, and he or she feels so unhealthy. However an important a part of that ebook is forgiveness. I believe that’s a part of the therapeutic that I believe children wish to hear, prefer it’s OK to make errors. It’s OK. And so I believe these are the tales that I actually, actually join with.
Ki Sung: Yeah, and breaking one thing of your dad and mom or tearing one thing that’s at all times terrifying as a child. Positively. Okay, so what books are you able to advocate that function Vietnamese American characters?
Minnie Phan: Oh, there’s so many. I actually love the ebook Needs. I consider that one’s by Monty. And I additionally I really like, I cherished The Greatest We May Do by Tee Bui. It’s been my North star. I truly met Tee when she was nonetheless engaged on it and I used to be there on the launch of her ebook and it’s simply been so stunning seeing the reception to her graphic novel. And in addition I really feel like we’re in a I’m in a sance proper now. I see inventive energy, cultural energy, constructing within the Vietnamese neighborhood. And I adore it, I really like. And Viet talks about this usually, narrative plentitude, for us to have many, many voices and to finally transcend the ache and trauma of warfare, which after all is important and necessary and have to be honored. However for us, to maneuver ahead as people and as a neighborhood, we’ve got to see past the heartache, the ache and see the potential, the enjoyment, the long run. And a lot of our future is in our younger individuals who get to have so many alternatives that we and our dad and mom didn’t get to have, however they get proper this second. Another books you wish to advocate? Yeah. Oh, let’s see. There’s the Magic Fish, which is about popping out and being queer. There’s Household Fashion about meals. Oh, there’s a terrific, actually fascinating ebook referred to as My Vietnam, Your Vietnam by Christina Vo, or Vo. And it’s It’s instructed, that is truly possibly extra of an grownup ebook, nevertheless it’s her perspective of dwelling in Vietnam and her father’s expertise of dwelling in Vietnam. So it’s each of their experiences dwelling overseas and the ebook finally converges within the heart the place they meet. It’s very fascinating. It’s like a twin memoir. Oh, you understand what? I wanna give an enormous shout out. I wanna to provide a shout out UN, UNFAM, UNfam. So once I graduated artwork college, I used to be model new to the sector. I had no examples of Vietnamese folks within the arts. And I used to be shopping spectator books in Oakland in the future and I picked up this ebook and I simply cherished the artwork. It was watercolors. It was playful. It was cute. And it was simply so good. I consider it was Vampirina Ballerina. however I picked it up and I abruptly noticed the title and it was a Vietnamese title, the final title Pham. And it was such a wonderful, inspiring second the place I bear in mind saying, if she will do it, I can do. And truly I had this stunning full circle second the place I used to be on stage together with her final 12 months on the Viet Ebook Fest, offered by Vala. And I bought to inform her the story and it was simply stunning that she was a trailblazer. She’s a Vietnamese American illustrator and author making it occur. If my 18 12 months outdated self might see her and simply know that though my neighborhood has no concept what I’m pursuing, it’s potential. I might be an artist. And I hope whoever’s listening to this, it actually doesn’t quit telling their story, making artwork, being inventive. And in case you see your little, in case you your little making artwork and being inventive, let that flourish. It’s gonna present up in so many various methods.
Ki Sung: These are nice suggestions. I hope that extra children and fogeys learn these books. I hope they see themselves within the tales and in addition embody what provides them pleasure. And at all ages, artwork is that, and it will probably unlock so many different experiences, very similar to what you have got realized all through your profession. So thanks, Minnie Phan, for being right here with us on Thoughts Shift.
Minnie Phan: Thanks a lot.
Ki Sung: Minnie Phan is a kids’s ebook illustrator who not too long ago revealed Simone with Viet Thanh Nguyen, and he or she’s a author and artist primarily based in Oakland. We’ll carry you extra concepts and improvements from specialists in schooling and past. Hit observe in your favourite podcast app so that you don’t miss a factor. The MindShift crew consists of me, Ki Sung, Nima Gobier, Marlena Jackson-Retondo, and Marnette Federis. Our editor is Chris Hamburg. Seth Samuel is our sound designer. Further help from Jen Chien, Katie Springer, Maha Sanad, and Holly Kernan. MindShift is supported partially by the generosity of the William and Flora Hewlett Basis and members of KQED. Thanks a lot for listening.
